Megan Rapinoe, in an interview with Out Magazine, clarified
a statement she made in an earlier interview with Kick TV that seemed like she
was coming out, but only if you paid close attention. The thing is she was not really closeted, but
she wasn’t public about it either. That
has changed and it’s a great thing she is doing by coming out publicly now before
the Olympics. Megan Rapinoe is a great
athlete and a very popular member of the US women’s soccer team. She decided to
come out publicly in part because she understands her status as a role model
for young people and wants to be part of changing the world for young LGBT
people in sports.
She is comfortable with who she is. She has been out with
teammates, friends and family for a while. Making the decision to be public
about being gay feels like the right next step and why not? I can only hope
that more women and men in sport make similar decisions about coming out
publicly. I am not in favor of outing
public figures, but I love it when they decide to come out. We need their visibility
to help change the sports world top to bottom.
Megan discusses some of her perceptions about the
differences between coming out for female and male athletes: She believes that
it is easier for women athletes to come out and be supported by their teammates
than it is for gay men in sport. I agree
that it seems like women’s teams at the college, professional and Olympic
levels are more accepting in general of lesbian teammates and coaches. However, I think we also need to acknowledge that
things are changing fast in men’s sports.
We cannot assume as we did a few years ago that it would be unthinkable
for a gay man in a pro team sport to come out.
Cyd Zeigler’s interviews with NFL players indicate a big change among in
pro football and these changes are mirrored in comments by other male pro team
sport athletes as well. Change is afoot in men’s sports.
Sometimes the media greet
lesbian athletes’ coming out with a big yawn, as if it only matters now when
gay male athletes come out. Witness the
incredible media frenzy recently when Wade Davis, a long retired NFL player came
out as compared to the coming out of WNBA Star and Olympic team member, Seimone
Augustus. Wade Davis – interviews on CNN
and hundreds of articles in the mainstream media. Seimone Augustus? Crickets chirping in the
night. Do you seriously think her coming
would have the same media response if she were an NBA player?
We cannot also assume that everything is cool for lesbians in
women’s sports. That would be a
dangerous assumption. In the last two
years, we can point to several instances of discrimination against lesbian
athletes or coaches in high school and college sports. Golf coach, Katie Brenny’s lawsuit against the
University of Minnesota is still going through the courts. Let’s not forget Texas high school softball
player, Skye Wyatt, who was kicked off her team and outed to her mother by her
coach, whose actions were backed up by the school committee. Remember Niki Williams the high school
basketball coach (also in Texas) who was dismissed before she coached her first
game because school administrators realized that she is lesbian. Oh, yeah, and soccer coach Lisa Howe at Belmont
University who was dismissed when school administrators found out her partner
was having a baby.
Negative recruiting based on perceived sexual orientation is
still an issue in women college sports. Sherri
Murrell is still the only publicly out lesbian basketball coach in division 1
college hoops. Only 42% of women’s
college teams are coached by women these days. That makes it difficult for
lesbian coaches to come out if they think it might jeopardize their jobs or
their ability to recruit which will also jeopardize their jobs.
Maybe we do not see the same level of anti-gay name-calling
in women’s sports that we do in men’s sports, but it is there. Among softball players you might have noticed
an increase in hair ribbons worn during games? There is a saying among women
softball players, “No bow? Lesbo.” One
softball player told me about a straight teammate who freaked out when she
realized that she forgot to bring her bow to an away game. What kind of welcoming climate do you think
that makes for a gay softball player?
I could go on, but
I hope you see my point: Megan Rapinoe’s coming out matters. We still have prejudice and discrimination to
fight in women’s sports. Let’s not forget that it still takes courage and a
willingness to be in the spotlight for something other than your athletic
ability for an athlete who is actively competing to come out, female or male. Thank you, Megan. Let’s hope your coming out empowers
more LGBT athletes and coaches to do the same.
We still have work to do in women’s and men’s sports before any athlete, male or female, coming out is not a big deal.
If you're still wondering why women's pro soccer can't make money just look to announcements like this.
ReplyDeleteIt's great she's happy she's out, but don't be expecting folks with kids and the money to buy tickets to be supporting the USNT or women's pro soccer given the reality of what is actually going on.
If you think there is going to be a groundswell of dudes coming out in men's pro sports you're goofier than we thought.
What???? Your comment makes no sense at all.
ReplyDelete"The reality of what is actually going on" is that players' personal relationships have no bearing whatsoever on the quality of the sport played.
Another fine example of the idea that being gay = less attractive = not commercially viable as an athlete.
Why do the haters bother reading this blog and then posting their comments on it? It's just hilarious to me.
ReplyDeleteGO Rapinoe! I am so excited that she came out and is truly a role model. And for those of you who don't think that kids go to these games, then it's obvious you don't go to these games.
Thanks for the article Pat! Don't let the turkeys get you down.
You aren't getting it. A person would have to be ignorant or blind to not already understand that Rapinoe is gay. All coming out publicly does is make you goofs feel good about yourselves and throw it in the face of those parents that want their daughters to compete without having to carry your lesbian banner into battle.
ReplyDeleteIf you think that approach will work for women's soccer or any women's sport you don't really care about women's sports, you care about your lesbian thingy.
Women's pro soccer has already failed here in the U.S. three or four times, depending upon how you want to count it. If you ladies think having a USNT team with an out lesbian coach and multiple out lesbian players is going to help your movement or your sport you are not living in the real world.
Actually being out and gay is less attractive to the general market and the majority of the population. If it wasn't marketing people would have been pitching the coolness of Lopiano, BJ King, Navratalova and their girlfriends for years and making money doing it. The fact they didn't and can't speaks for itself.
Megan Rapinoe, Wade Davis, Seimone Augustus; these people are strangers to me.
ReplyDeleteYou say:
"It’s a great thing she is doing by coming out publicly now before the Olympics."
Not so: 1.) She uses an Olympic stage to make a political statement. 2.) In a team sport, Megan Rapinoe took the focus off the U.S. Olympic team, by choosing to be the center of public attention. 3.) If the team loses unexpectedly, she opens the door to rumors, her going public, had a negative impact on the Olympic team.
As a former coach, you applaud Megan for NOT being a team player first and an individual second. Good coaches teach team, before self. Surprising of you, Pat Griffin, to have forgotten this lesson. Maybe these lessons don't apply to Lesbian players?
Gay men in sports: As far back as the 1970s; latest 1980s, I heard there were Gay football players in the NFL. NBA, I'm sure the same was true. Major League Baseball, probably had Gays first!
(Won't the first NBA Gay superstar, seem dull after Dennis Rodman, anyway?)
Lesbians coming out of the closet, I yawn, it's true. That which is commonplace, promotes yawning. I yawned at Davis, as well. I was among the last to hear the WNBA is supposed to be filled with Lesbians. Is it? Anyone know?
Softball: Might the ribbons be a sign of a larger issue? Might the Lesbian community be so pushy in this sport; so out there; that it's made it difficult for straight gals to play this sport, without being labeled, in fun or otherwise? Since I don't follow the sport, I'm saying, "Don't blame the straight people," examine the cause!
You talk inclusiveness, then you blame the straight people. "Being out and being proud," may have unintended negative repercussions, worthy of your examination. (Hint: Is exhibiting, being out and being proud, team oriented? I see this as a real challenge, emotionally.)
Remember, straight gals don't wish to be labeled, either. Taunting in sports has a long history. Do I have to tell you this, for you to know it?
Maybe Lesbians on a team, need to be more team-oriented in dress and appearance, for example. Not demanding this, just saying, teams wear team uniforms and I remember when guys had to get a haircut that met the coach's standard, not their own. But then too, maybe Lesbian players enjoy seeing their team-mates taunted. You can see how both sides could go on and on demanding the other side compromise and support the other, rather than both sides reaching an intelligent solution, right?
Megan Rapinoe's coming out, might have been more noteworthy, had she taken the Anderson Cooper route of coming out. (For which he has been much criticized by the Gay Community and Liberals! What irony!)
Megan loses my respect, because what she did was for maximum political exposure, which to some extent, my tax dollars or my product purchasing dollars went into giving this "paid professional athlete" the platform she abused. Maybe next time she can spend her own money, maybe?
Circumspect does not seem to be in the Gay/Lesbian vocabulary, not even allowed for those among you, who choose to be cirmcumspect. Sad.
Wyman, I once had hope that you would be open-minded and able to see things from a different perspective. I have now officially given up hope on that. It does intrigue me that, despite your apparent distain for anything I write, you keep coming back to comment so extensively on how much you disagree with me.
ReplyDeleteI do respect that you actually sign your name to your posts. Other than that, I think we will just have to agree to disagree on most everything else.
DEVIL'S ADVOCATE:
ReplyDeleteIn common parlance, a devil's advocate is someone who, given a certain argument, takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with, for the sake of argument. In taking such position, the individual taking on the devil's advocate role seeks to engage others in an argumentative discussion process. (From Wikipedia)
You don't learn by agreeing, Pat. I came here thinking you to be open-minded and able to see things from a different perspective too. I am trying NOT to give up on you.
If I keep coming back, it is out of respect for your position as a national spokesperson for those you represent. It's rare to have the chance to communicate with, perhaps even influence, a person who advocates for anything on a national level.
I have little doubt what you advocate for, intentionally or unintentionally, could have a negative impact on my life or other, impressionable people. The future will determine what, if any, impact your advocacy will have, both positive and negative.
This post and Title IX, maybe I should have yawned and moved on. I could have told myself, either you suffer from an embedded blindness to alternative viewpoints or you felt the celebration of Megan Rapinoe outweighed all possible negatives, including those I mentioned.
Overall, we do disagree. My point of coming here is to discover whether you have heard of and believe in compromise. I find this to be a key point both the Gay and Straight community are
refusing to face and talk about.
Perhaps I am ahead of the curve on this. Perhaps I am behind the curve.
If all the compromises have been made already, all I need is the rulebook to see where I can and can't compromise personally. Then I can begin to prepare myself for the consequences of the future.
Thank you for your comments to me. Nice of you to take the time.
Wyman - your comment: "I have little doubt what you advocate for, intentionally or unintentionally, could have a negative impact on my life or other, impressionable people." has me confused. Can you clarify what the negative impact is. I apologize if you have enumerated the adverse effects in previous postings. Beyond your personal stress provoked by the possiblity of your potential proximity to someone unlike yourself in some way, I am at a loss how this issue adversely affects you more, and wonder why this issue affects you more than interaction with any other group that you perceive as different from you.
ReplyDeleteWyman - You're a trooper, but unless you agree with Pat and the sisterhood they think you're a bad guy. In their world there is no room for debate or disagreement. You are giving them way more intellectual credit than they deserve. That's why they are fine with Rapinoe's selfish and political approach to the Olympics. It's also why the gay community is OK with things like the Bradley Manning situation. They don't care how much damage they have to do to others to get them where they want to be.
ReplyDeleteAs I've mentioned before, buy and read Pat's book. It says it all. She honestly feels that it's OK for women's sports to be a dating environment and opportunity for lesbians. She also seems to think that it is unreasonable for parents to try to vet college sports programs in order to identify a social environment they are comfortable with putting their offspring into.
It is what it is.
PART ONE
ReplyDeleteThank you Marcie. The statement is obscure. I stated it that way, because many laws and changes that arise in society, lead to unintended and unpredictable consequences. Some of these are sure to be negative, to those, it does not benefit.
A direct example from the Black Civil Rights Movement, which as a powerless high school student, I supported: Graduating, I applied with a retail company for a job. Ahead of me, as I filled out my application, was a black guy. I heard his interview. No privacy back then, sorry to say.
He lacked education, experience, and all other qualifications to work for this retail company. They hired him on the spot and told him, where to show up for work. That was fine, even if surprising. Gave me hope at that moment.
With a straight-face, the HR person came to me, took my application, glanced at it, told me they were not hiring, had not hired anyone in 6 months, and did not expect to be hiring for quite a while. (This, despite the interview I just witnessed.) I was dumbfounded, of course, being a newly graduated high school student. (Then and now, I call this a bald-faced lie, which I feel is never necessary, since the truth is readily available.)
Months later, I discovered this retail company had been sued for discriminatory racial hiring practices by the NAACP. They lost in court or (more probable) made an out of court settlement.
Civil Rights, which I strongly supported, led to the unintended consequence of me having no opportunity of getting a job with this retail company. (Our family had traded with them, since I was a child and had praised them highly. So, it hurt to be lied to by them.)
The retailer had essentially agreed to a hiring quota that mandated hiring virtually all black people at the level I would have worked at.
The unintended consequence was reverse discrimination, often against the very young whites who had supported the end of discrimination against blacks.
In a long history of work this is a minor event, although a memorable personal example, that Civil Rights for some, can mean loss of Civil Rights for others. One can argue and debate whether this is justice or not. There are merits on both sides. When you need a paycheck; you need a paycheck.
Do I expect there to be lawsuits that claim hiring discrimination against Gay people? Do I expect quotas in hiring and promotion to be put in place by lawsuits or companies, who anticipate lawsuits, so get ahead of the game by quietly imposing hiring and promotion quotas?
I think, yes. I believe, in some companies, this may be going on already. I would guess Nike and Microsoft would be two such companies, from reading Pat's blog.
Similar examples arose due to the Women's Movement, particularly as it relates to hiring, promotion, and workplace relations. Does racism still exist? Yes. Do women still encounter discrimination in the workplace? Yes.
PART 2
ReplyDeleteYet, there is a class of people, who tend to be non-middle class, white males, who bear the brunt of the negatives, so the positives can come to minorities and women. In fact, being black and a woman, often allows a company to kill two potential Civil Rights complaints with one person, by hiring and promoting that person. Being black, female, and lesbian may give rise to killing 3 birds with one stone!
I shy away from such stuff, because it's politically loaded, tends to be anecdotal, and it's personal. Yet enough of it goes on, you would think it would get looked into as discrimination, but it never will. More important, as we continue to divide into sub-classes of people, this will become more and more the norm.
Non-University educated white guys, white women, black women, black males, and since you're not all wealthy, gays and lesbians, need to work. We need to NOT head into the office, worksite, laboratory, or campus; wondering if today, "I" fit the PC mold of the moment in my organization. As I have worked and grown older, I find more and more, this creeps into companies and into the workplace. Long term, I feel this is detrimental to companies, employees, and the people of this nation.
Marcie, I hope I helped you understand my thinking, if not, I can try again. I'm not the most eloquent person in the world.
ReplyDeleteMarcie, you are a thoughtful person. Thank you again, Marcie.
Wyman, this statement:
ReplyDeletewondering if today, "I" fit the PC mold of the moment in my organization. As I have worked and grown older, I find more and more, this creeps into companies and into the workplace. Long term, I feel this is detrimental to companies, employees, and the people of this nation.
completely astounds me. You worry about "not being PC", about "not fitting in". How about you consider that the world is changing, and YOU have to adjust????
No one is out to get you, no one wants to punish you for being a straight white guy (I presume). But the rest of us female/minority/gay/transgendered folks would sure like a fair shot at our piece of the pie.
And before you start screaming about how someone "less qualified" than you is stealing your job, think REAL hard about what makes them that way. Because they don't fit the mold you were raised in? Because they act and look different? For years and years employers hired people on the basis of their "qualifications", which, many times, happened to be what they were familiar and comfortable with. Which was usually another white dude, or a "non-threatening" white female.
It's still going on. But since you live in the world of the majority, all you can see is the threat to yourself.
I have worked my behind off to get where I am in life, and thanks to your sort of attitude it is still assumed I have this job "only because I'm a woman".
"throw it in the face of those parents that want their daughters to compete without having to carry your lesbian banner into battle."
ReplyDeleteOh for heaven's sake. God forbid a young woman be exposed to social interaction with another young woman who happens to be gay. If you want to play the sport, you play the sport. Your teammates do not have a radical agenda to "convert" anyone. Really.
I've not been taunted, ostracized, or otherwise excluded because I was a straight chick on a team with a majority of gay members.
Yes, sometimes relationships develop between players on a team. News Flash! Relationships develop in co-ed sports leagues, too.
That is a far cry from the apparent assumption that a "Predatory Lesbian" is going to molest a formerly straight girl and turn her. Like a gay vampire or something. Trust me, your daughters don't need to wear garlic necklaces into the locker room.
DrSunsets: You miss what I am trying say. I credit you for listening. I thank you, as well. Perhaps I am unable to communicate well enough.
ReplyDeleteChange and political correctness are not the same thing to me. They can interact. Both in positive and negative ways, in my view.
"Adjusting" I have done my share of that. What piece of the pie do you feel you have not had a fair shot at? (I can relate to that.)
"Qualifications" can be a loose and loaded term. That's a topic well worth talking about. I have seen the short end of the "Qualifications" game before.
I see many kinds of threats, not only threats to myself.
I've seen women denigrated by other women, for the superior positions they earned. It's stupid, but sadly, human. Good to hear your hard work is paying off. I like for people to succeed.
The quote you attribute to me, I didn't say. I assume you mean the ribbon-haired players. It would take a whole post to clarify, so I'll say, I assumed it involved straight players not wanting to be taunted by fans, as lesbians. My understanding is taunting is worse at all levels of sports today. Is it?
I must've wrongly assumed coaches can still enforce a uniform dress-code on players, involving everything from hair-length to ribbons.
I said nothing about predatory anything. Nor anything about romantic relationships.
I'm glad gals get to play sports today. As a teen, I knew some athletic girls, who never got to play organized sports.
Time passes; change happens. I cheered the girls, then ladies, who got to play.
Then one day I went through the exit. Thought I would return; never have. Mudville, lost it in 9. Poor Casey.
drsunsets – It’s exceptionally uncool how you and your friends minimize the legitimate concerns of those that don’t agree with your social engineering goals. In spite of the propaganda being circulated by you knuckleheads the majority of the cis population isn’t cool with your plans to normalize the lesbian thingy and to quote Pat “redefine masculinity”. It might play well in tenured academia, not so much in the real world.
ReplyDeleteLet me try to communicate this in a way you can understand. While it’s clear you folks don’t value the biologically correct m/f marriage model or traditional families the truth is that most of the young ladies that flow into the Title IX expanded athletic pipeline are coming from that reality. Pat’s book just confirmed what those of us close to women’s athletics have already observed over many years. Thankfully an icon of the LGBT sports movement put it in writing, had it published and everyone can buy it on Amazon. I hope it becomes a bestseller. Now regular folks don’t have to make claims that will be called outlandish and unfair by the lesbian crew. We’re going to let her book stand on it’s own. All it will do is reinforce our legitimate position that you’re leveraging the interest in sports of cis girls to put them into an environment that has been acknowledged to be lesbian friendly and you don’t have a problem with it. If you think parents are cool with that then you’re just not paying attention.
What's amazing about interacting with goofs like you is your consistent disregard for the feelings and responsibilities of others when they conflict at any level with your worldview. This weak effort at trying to shame people that disagree with your social engineering goals doesn’t really work too well with folks that get it. You may find it to be a fatal flaw to your strategy.
I’m not going to get into your “predatory lesbian” blurb other than to say to those that are interested there is a pretty standard approach to turning cis girls in women’s sports that starts with befriending them and eventually evolves to the lesbian reality. It’s well documented. Let me know if you’d like some links. It is what it is. Claiming it isn’t going on just shows your lack of respect for those of us frequenting blogs like this.
Save your sarcasm for someone that doesn’t understand the issues. Your prior response just validates you lack of respect for others.
Well, I would argue that you are showing a significant lack of respect by assuming that "there is a pretty standard approach to turning cis girls in women's sports that starts with befriending them...."
ReplyDeleteI'm really quite insulted on behalf of my queer friends who have been nothing but respectful and welcoming to women of all orientations on the field and on the ice. I don't have to "dial back" on my straightness or hide who I am - why should they?
I think our main point of disagreement here is that you believe that someone "chooses" a sexuality. I don't. We're wired a certain way, and all the wishful thinking and social reprogramming (in the guise of making sure that no one is "uncomfortable") we've tried can't change biology. So if being "lesbian friendly" means accepting the fact that there are going to be some openly queer girls in the locker room, than so be it.
And please, do post some links to your studies - I'd love to read them.
1 of 2
ReplyDeletedrs - You’re entitled to your opinion, but my position is only disrespectful if it isn’t true and frankly it is the truth. As far as you being insulted on behalf of your queer friends, that would be your call. No one has argued that actually balling with LGBT teammates or opponents is a problem. What many people, including myself, argue is that they should just shut up and play. Instead they prefer to leverage their sports participation into the mainstream on a political basis. If they expect everyone, particularly parents, to just lie down and let that happen they’re dreaming.
Exchanges like this remind me of the precious few number of parents there are in the lesbian sports community and the lack of respect the LGBT community has for cis parents that don’t believe for personal or religious reasons that their daughters should be forced to associate with the out lesbian lifestyle in order to participate in organized sports. The fact that you and your friends think it doesn’t matter just calls out your disregard for their rights as parents. They don’t have to accept you or your friends and queers don’t have the right to push their sexual dysfunction on their daughters. The fact that the LGBT crew thinks their rights trump those of parents to raise their children in an environment that is acceptable to them says it all. So frankly you’re going to continue to see what you ladies like to call “negative recruiting” since it is the parent’s responsibility to place their daughter in a sports program that they are comfortable with both ethically and morally. I get you don’t like it, but frankly most sports parents really don’t care what you like. We’re not talking about your kid and we also don’t care if you think a lesbian friendly environment would be healthy for their children since you don’t end up living with the consequences of that decision.
The frequently and loudly stated position of your queer friends is that everyone should be cool with the LGBT lifestyle just because. They also feel that it’s appropriate to leverage whatever fame or infamy they may have in sports to pitch the normalization of the LGBT lifestyle. Hence Rapinoe’s recent quote in Out Magazine, “I feel everyone is really craving [for] people to come out. People want -- they need -- to see that there are people like me playing soccer for the good ol’ U.S. of A.” Well, this is America and everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. That said Rapinoe spouting off her views of what “people want and need” doesn’t make it true and her selfish leveraging of her USWNT and Olympic team membership is quite frankly appalling.
I don’t know why you think I believe people choose to be gay, as I’ve never said that. I don’t really think it matters for the purposes of this discussion but for the record I’m inclined to believe that it is not always hard wired, particularly in women. A good case study would be Sheryl Swoope’s well-publicized gender flip-flops and that there is strong anecdotal evidence that women are much more likely to be turned than men. Most of the gay men I have know seem to have been hard wired as homosexual. In any case it doesn’t matter, as most cis folks don’t believe an aberrant three percent of the population has the right to push their sexual issues on society as being normal, particularly in the public school and sports environment.
2 of 2
ReplyDeletedrs - Here is an interesting link from a University of Texas female baller. Note she’s calling out 80% of her teammates as being lesbian. Comments are also interesting:
http://threaders.wordpress.com/2011/01/11/the-“every-female-basketball-player-is-gay-ugly-masculine-tall-aggressive”-myth…/
A link to a video of a USC / WNBA baller concerning lesbianism in the sport. She’s taking a religious angle, which I don’t buy into, but the video is informative as to the general lifestyle:
http://exgaygodsway.blogspot.com/2011/05/lesbianism-wnba-camille-lenoir-tells.html
Another link to a story and a video about lesbianism in girls bb from the perspective of the black community. Discusses it in the context of the murder of Tayshana Murphy in 2011. Comments are interesting:
http://www.atoast2wealth.com/2011/09/14/can-the-game-of-basketball-turn-our-teen-girls-out-and-into-a-life-of-homosexuality/
Piece on Swoops lifestyle evolution:
http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2011/07/14/sheryl-swoopes-is-not-a-lesbian-now-engaged-to-marry-a-man/
A piece from Stuff Lesbians Like on sports injuries. A perspective I didn’t understand previously:
http://gracethespot.com/?p=219
Finally if you haven’t read Pat’s book you should. She discusses this issue extensively throughout but particularly on pages 26-27. Pat’s basic premise is that lesbianism is totally OK and cis women should align themselves with LGBT folks against the patriarchy and men generally as they have common objectives. It’s a flawed premise as most cis women have very little in common with lesbians other than their plumbing. I would add that it’s not lost on those of us that are familiar with women’s sports that a majority of those in positions of authority in the women’s sports power structure are lesbians and are pursuing lesbian objectives that are not at all aligned with cis women. But that’s a topic for another time.
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Not much to add to this foolishness. I'm sure you ladies don't care, but parents of young women actually do. Maybe you should look in the mirror instead of blaming everyone else for your problems and trying to feel good by pushing them on others.
It is getting common between players that they can tell their sexual orientation on TV.
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